Friday, September 3, 2010

A god that's not timeless

God is supposed to be a perfect, all-knowing and omnipotent being who exists in all times at once.  Hell, he's supposed to have created even the concept of time. What's interesting is that he shows evidence of changing over time, which may suggest something other than timelessness. In the Old Testament, he was the god of wrath. In the New Testament, he's the god of mercy. His personality and the way he interacts with humanity certainly seems to evolve quite a bit.

According the bible, there were a few times in humanity's history where god decided that things weren't quite working out the way they were supposed to, so he did something drastic to fix them. With the Noah's Ark story: he was displeased with the entire population of the human race, so he essentially picked up the Etch-A-Sketch and gave it a good shake. Hurray for the Great Flood. He wiped out humanity and started over.

Much later, the human race is being a collective bitch again and something needs to be done. Maybe the drowning of millions of his precious creation broke his heart the last time he had to do it, so he decided to try a more peaceful (and less mass-murderous) solution. So he became man in the form of Jesus and provided a new way of getting into heaven, saving the whole lot of us miserable bastards. These events and god's reaction to them seem to blatantly indicate that he was learning along the way, and changing the way he did things accordingly. He was presented with a problem, he reacted with a solution. He was later presented with a similar problem, and he reacted differently than before, with a new and better solution.

It's always said that god will come again and "judge the living and dead", or essentially judge every human who's ever lived. To judge someone is to assess them and decide if they've done things properly. If he already knew who would successfully pass this judgement before he even made everyone, then the "Day of Judgement" would really be the "Day of Sorting", when he'd just create two lines for everyone on his pre-determined list – heaven or hell. But the fact that he still has yet to judge each one of us – to evaluate by some criteria and decide a consequence – means simply that he hasn't decided yet. Which means that time in his life hasn't happened yet either.

Everything god has done, currently does, or will do, seems to follow the pattern of "action, reaction". Things happen, and then he reacts in some way. It also seems to indicate that god learns from his experiences and does things differently later. This seems to point to a being that could be going along a timeline similar to us.

If god was perfect and existed throughout all of time, then there would be no difference in him between the two testaments, Jesus would have always existed as a way of getting into heaven, and he could have foreseen the collective bunch of assholes the human race was becoming and possibly avoided the Great Flood.

Now it may not be such a big deal for god to be on a timeline like us. If he's got power that's still infinite in comparison, what difference does it make? It could cause us to redefine our definition of "perfect". Or it could open a can of worms about whether god has to be perfect and omnipotent in every way to do what he does. And if it can be said that god isn't perfect, then the entire religion risks unraveling into oblivion.

It could also be that we're the ones who change, so through our perspective it appears that god is changing with us. Much like reading the same book once every 10 years. It would be an entirely different experience and you would learn new things every time you read it. But it's you who has changed. The book, as the teacher, has remained the same.

4 comments:

  1. If God's all-knowing, why did he go through the effort of creating man, knowing we would disappoint Him over and over? Didn't he see it coming, any of the times? Not to mention, why does a "perfect" being have to change his mind at all?

    As usual, it doesn't make sense.

    Christians are forced to fit the story to the "facts". The bible is exceedingly self-contradictory, for a lot of reasons - written over hundreds of years, by different authors, from sources of various cultures. God "changes" because it's a bunch of different stories.

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  2. If you really want your head to spin look up the definition of christ. Most people who don't look very hard will find the answer to be Christ = Messiah. Those who choose to put forth an effort will find a much more interesting answer.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ) Christ means anointed one. For once wiki got part of something sort of correct. So what then does it mean to be anointed? But i digress...

    Is god perfect?

    Damn, good question. The answer in short is yes, but how does a fish understand a tiger? Can it? The comparison may seem arbitrary but when you think on perfection that goes beyond the human mind to grasp... Perhaps we should extend this example into something more tangible. Explain color to a person who has been blind their entire life. But my suggestion is more esoteric than religious. ;-p

    Religion is a creation of man and therefore has flaws. Perfection in the mind of most is an ever changing concept of the unobtainable ideal set in motion by the influences of our identified self. In short we are what we eat and we see what we have been fed.

    Is it the answer more important or the question?

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  3. Interesting points brought up I must say. A note to "googleis", "Messiah" is the Hebrew word for "Anointed One" (fyi).

    The basic thought that God in the OT is a God of wrath and in the NT He is a God of mercy is a common one, however upon closer inspection one might find that in fact He is a God of mercy in the OT as well, and a God of wrath in the NT as well. Let me illustrate:

    In the OT, man disobeyed the first command: Don't eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Having disobeyed Him, God had every right and prerogative to completely obliterate them on the spot. But He did not, but rather let them live, albeit outside the Garden, facing lesser consequences for their actions.

    Then man collectively went off the deep end, being all together vile and sinful. So God brings on the Flood. Yet, He again did not completely obliterate them, but showed mercy in saving Noah and 7 others with him. (And there are several other illustrations of similar nature.)

    In the NT we see God's wrath in that He poured out His wrath upon Jesus Christ (rather than sinful men). Thus sin was finally and fully atoned for. Though we of course see His mercy in this as well, for in pouring out His wrath upon Christ He mercifully provided a way for men to be saved.

    As far as God changing, this is a misnomer. See, in the very beginning, once man sinned in the Garden of Eden, He in pronouncing judgment upon the parties involved also foretold of the coming Messiah/Christ/Anointed One -

    "And I will put enmity
    between you and the woman,
    and between your offspring [a] and hers;
    he will crush [b] your head,
    and you will strike his heel."

    While this may seem obscure, it refers to one who would come and crush the head of the serpent (Satan) though this One's heel would be "bitten". The offspring of the woman, or Christ born of a virgin, would defeat Satan on the cross - yet Satan would "strike" His heel in that he (working in tandem with God this one time) would have Him crucified.

    This doesn't address all your comments, but I thought it would be worth posting. The question of WHY God created us to begin with, knowing we would end up as we are... That one is unanswerable. "Who has known the mind of the Lord...?" No one but Him!

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  4. *in pouring His wrath upon Christ He mercifully provided a SUBSTITUTION... (my apologies as I did not review my comment before posting it...)

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